Cycle 9 : : : Frequently Asked Questions about electric bikes, xtracycle and more

What bikes and forks are compatible with the Forsen motors?

2008-08-08T17:44:48.590-04:00

This answer is just a placeholder. Please use the comments section to comment on compatibility for Forsen motors.

What are the dimensions of the 26" eZee kit

2008-08-07T19:23:42.433-04:00

The eZee kit has the standard front "over locknut dimension" (O.L.D.), which is 100 mm. It comes in three sizes, 20", 26", and 700C, referring to the diameter of the complete wheel. The rims are standard mountain/hybrid bike width, about 1". The wheel comes with a 180mm disc brake motor, but not all calipers will fit between the rotor and the motor. eZee company recommends the Shimano BR-M545 caliper. We can get that for $85 (MSRP is $89), just drop us a line. We will also be listing it in our online store in the future.

What bikes and forks is the eZee front hub motor kit compatible with

2008-08-07T19:22:00.141-04:00

This FAQ entry is just a placeholder.

We invite reports in the comments here regarding compatibility, i.e. what works, and what doesn't, with the eZee front hub motor kit.

Electric Conversion Kit Installation & Compatibility

2008-08-07T19:20:41.060-04:00

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How far can an ebike go on one charge?

2008-03-31T22:01:26.881-04:00

That depends on how you drive the bike, what kind of motor you have, and what kind of batteries you are using. It's just like the question, "how far will a car go on a tank of gas?" The answer depends on the size of the engine, the size of the tank, and how fast you're driving.

The analogy between car distance on a tank of gas, and bike distance on a battery charge can be drawn as follows:
1. The electric bike motor+controller is like the engine in a car. Here in North America, most people seem to like high-power bicycles, which is in contrast to other parts of the world. For example, in China and Europe, a 250 watt (W) bike is typical. But we find customers like the higher power and speed of a 400W (or more) motor, like the one on our bikes. So, it can accelerate and climb faster, but it comes with the tradeoff of consuming the battery faster. This can be compensated by driving the bike more gently, if you want to go further.

2. The electric bike battery is its "gas tank". The size is usually measured in "Amp hours" (AH or Ah). 10 AH is a typical size for many electric bikes, which is good for 20+ miles of riding. Doubling the size of the battery in Amp hours will double the range. For example, a 20AH battery pack will take the bike twice as far as a 10AH battery pack.

3. How you drive a car significantly affects the mileage. How you drive an electric bike significantly affects the mileage. Having a "lead foot" on either vehicle reduces the total mileage. For our Cycle 9 bikes with 10AH batteries, the range can be as high as 40 miles if you use very little assist, and as low as 15 miles if you have a "lead foot," using the electric constantly to accelerate and climb big hills. It's all about how you ride the bike.

Now, given those 3 points, there are a few things to consider. Many manufacturers seem to claim they have a "50 mile" range for their bikes. But very few people will ever actually get 50 miles out of one of those bikes. That's because those numbers are usually based on two things:

1. These are usually for low power bikes, like those with 250 watts. Most people in North American markets like having more power, and after riding a 250 watt bike for a while, want to upgrade. We have had more than one customer ask us about doing that.

2. Those "50 mile" numbers are usually based on flat ground, no headwind, and using minimal assistance (mostly leg power).

While our bikes and some of the kits could theoretically go 50 miles too, we never tell customers that, because we think people would just be disappointed - the real world is not a flat test track with no wind. The real world has hills, headwinds, and people who like to ride fast on their bikes! So we think a more realistic number is 20 miles.

If you really want to track how much power you are using and how far you can go, we suggest getting a CycleAnalyst. These awesome little computers track everything about your electric bike system, so you know exactly how much power you are using, and what things affect your usage the most.

Are ebikes legal

2008-03-08T15:44:23.857-05:00

In many states ebikes that comply with the 20 miles per hour limit are treated as normal bicycles (that includes North Carolina). However, make sure you check in your state first.

I used to ride an ebike in a state where it was not officially legal (apparently I was supposed to get it registered at the DMV first). However, at the time I was ignorant of the law, so I didn't register my bike. I rode it in that state for 4 years, and never once did anyone ask me any questions or give any hassles. That doesn't mean you should break the law, it is just relating my own experience.

How fast does an ebike go

2008-03-08T15:38:49.805-05:00

Most ebikes are limited to 20 mph maximum electric assist speed (they can go faster, but only with pedal power alone). This is due to federal law which defines safety standards for ebikes. Vehicles that can travel faster than that fall under the regulations of the DOT, which means they need to have more safety equipment, and can't be taken on bike paths.

All of the ebikes we sell are limited to the 20mph top speed for the assist, to comply with the law. With some bikes and kits it is possible to make them go faster by adding higher voltage or other tweaks. We cannot condone breaking the law, though the reality is, if you are discrete and careful, nobody is likely to notice. On the other hand, if you go barreling down the local bike path at 30mph, and you get caught, we don't feel sorry for you, because it is a stupid thing to do - you are endangering yourself and everyone else. Most bikes were not made to travel at 30+ mph speeds, especially not on narrow paths.

What kind of mileage does it get?

2008-03-08T15:23:45.677-05:00

Just like in a car, it depends on how you drive it. If you have a lead foot you will get less, if you have a feather foot, you will get more.

But, in average use on our own bikes, we get around 500 miles per gallon. The way we calculate that is figuring that if we put a gallon of gas into a good generator, we will get about 8.8 Kwh out of it, enough to drive the bike almost 600 miles. But then we factor in that the charger looses 10-20%, and we arrive at the 500 MPG figure.

What is a cargo bike?

2008-03-07T18:16:22.848-05:00

Basically, a new breed of bicycle that can carry stuff. There are all sorts of varieties, from Dutch style Bakfiets cargo bikes to sports utility bikes. We personally like the sports-utility bike platform, because it is so versatile, as exemplified by the Yuba Mundo shown below. This style handles like a normal bike, and can be used on as well as off road. But it can haul - stuff and more stuff. The Yuba Mundo can carry over 400 pounds of stuff. The Xtracycle is an attachment that you can add to your own bike. That one is nifty because it has an interchangeable system of parts like panniers, foot rests, etc. It can carry up to 200 pounds of gear.

Why burn fossil fuels to ride and electric bike?

2008-03-07T18:15:19.037-05:00

The goal of the electric bikes is to motivate a person to ride more often (because, it's fun!). If you're already biking every day without electric assist, then maybe electric isn't the right answer for you. But for people who think the hills are a little too big, the weather too hot (in the summer), who feel hungover, sick, or just want a little boost, electric bikes are great. No matter how good or bad I feel, I can hop on that electric bike to commute to work, and know that I can get as much or as little exercise as I want. Some days I want a lot, and some days I just want to cruise and take it easy.

As to energy efficiency: energy is not free, whether it comes from the food that powers you, or the electricity that powers the bike. For example, this site calculates the MPG for riding your bike with no electric, and the best is 200MPG (for a vegetarian).

On the other hand, the bike I ride every day uses 150 watt hours of electricity for a 15 mile round trip (stop and go). That equates to 500+ MPG, assuming a conversion of 8.8 KWH per gallon of gas (which is typical for a generator). So, the electric bike is actually twice as efficient as the human.

More importantly, the electric bike can be powered by renewable energy. They can be charged with wind power, solar, etc (I frequently charge mine with solar). In that case, there is no fossil fuel involved, and it is actually far more efficient than a human powered bike.

What kind of maintenance does it need?

2008-03-07T18:14:50.768-05:00

Ebikes are very similar to regular bikes in their maintenance needs. The only real "extra" maintenance is occasional replacement of the battery. With our high-quality Lithium-Manganese batteries, they should last 500 cycles if treated well.

Replacing the battery once every 2-4 years is the biggest maintenance cost of an ebike, and should be factored in (just like in calculating the cost of car ownership, you should add in oil changes, tire changes and rotations, lubes, tune ups, taxes, parking, and etc). As of March 08, replacement batteries are about $450. However, we are doing research into a line of very long lasting LiFePO4 batteries for our ebikes, which should last 5 years or more in typical usage (for only slightly higher prices).

How much does it cost to charge?

2008-03-07T18:14:41.147-05:00

In most locales, you will spend from $0.03 (3 cents) to $0.05 (5 cents) for a full charge.

This is based on electricity at 11 cents per kilowatt hour, assuming that you used 1/4 kilowatt hour on the bike, and factoring in some charging inefficiency.

Can it recharge when I'm pedaling?

2008-03-07T18:14:30.305-05:00

A lot of people ask this question. There are kits on the market that can do this, like the BionX. However, most kits do not implement this feature, for a reason. When you are pedaling a bike, it is no fun to have things slowing you down. Think of riding into a big headwind - it slows you down, and makes biking less fun. Well, if you use the pedaling to recharge the battery, it is going to slow you down, because it is taking energy from your legs and putting it into the battery. Most people don't want that, unless they are race training or something.

Now, on the BionX, the one benefit of this setup is that it can recharge when you are braking, coming to a stop. This is useful, because it is capturing energy that would be thrown away. But estimates are, it only saves about 20% of your total energy (so you can go 20% farther). So, given the extra expense this introduces into the system, most electric bike systems do not implement it.

What is an electric assist bike?

2008-03-07T18:14:14.046-05:00

It is a bicycle with a clean, quiet, electric motor. There are several reasons people get ebikes. They help you go up hills, without having to feel like you're running a marathon. They reduce your sweatiness, which is great if you are riding them to work. They are fun, so they encourage you to bike more often. They are great if you want to bike, but don't feel in peak shape.

The electric bike lets you choose how much exercise to get. You can use the assist a lot, and only get a little exercise. Or you can use the electric assist a little, and get a lot of exercise. Either way, you'll be getting more exercise than sitting in a car, or on a scooter.

There are two varieties:
1. A "pedelec" that detects when you are pedaling, and assists you proportionally
2. A throttle controlled electric assist.

Some bikes, like our Cycle 9 brand, combine the best of both. Our bikes have a gentle electric assist that detects how hard you are pedaling, and adds just a bit of power. And we have a thumb throttle, so if you want more power, you get it at the press of a button.

Beginner: Electric Assist Bikes and Technologies

2008-03-07T18:13:56.455-05:00

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The Crystalyte versus the eZee hub motor

2008-03-03T15:40:23.657-05:00

The two main things that distinguish the eZee from the Crystalyte are: 1) weight (the Crystalyte is significantly heavier), and 2) hill climbing/load carrying (torque). With standard bikes and moderate hills, the Crystalyte works well. With a heavier load-carrying bike, or with steep hills, the high torque of the eZee really helps. The motor does not bog down in any circumstances we've tried it under (though going up steep hills at full throttle is punishing on the batteries and should be minimized). We have example bikes with both motors for people to try out, just drop us a line or call. Also, for those who want to add electric assist to their bike, but not have that addition not change the handling of the bike, the eZee is the way to go. However, one of our own bikes has a Crystalyte, and it works well, and would be a good solution for the budget conscious and/or those not intending to carry loads on their bike.

Can I remove the Xtracycle Freeradical easily?

2008-01-26T12:54:25.761-05:00

Often people ask this question before buying a FreeRadical. While it is true that the Freeradical can be removed relatively quickly (with practice, it might be 20-30 minutes), I don't know of a single owner who does that. Once people get it installed on their bikes, they realize how great it is to have the freedom to carry stuff on their bikes, whenever or wherever they are. And since it does not detract from the handling or feel of the bike, there is often little reason to remove it.

What is an Xtracycle Freeradical?

2008-01-26T12:45:01.948-05:00

It converts your bike into a load hauling machine, while retaining that lightweight nimble bike feel. It shares many properties of trailers, without the disadvantages of a trailer. It won't tip over. It can carry heavy loads (up to 200 pounds!). It can carry passengers. It can carry long loads like kayaks, ladders, surfboards, carpets. It uses a set of saddlebags called the "Freeloaders" that easily expand to fit your load. And it makes the bike ride more stable (because it extends the wheelbase).

We use these on our everyday bikes. We believe this is one of the single most transformative pieces of biking equipment to come along in the last 5 years. It gives a sense of freedom to use a bike without worrying about whether you can carry stuff.

Installation is straightforward. The FreeRadical fits in where your rear wheel did. Your existing rear wheel is moved back, fitting in the FreeRadical itself. The kit comes with extensions for your chain and your cables. A pro bike mechanic can do the work in 1-1.5 hours, and for a first time installer it might be 3-4 hours.

The kit comes for 26" wheels or 700c wheels.

General

2008-01-26T12:44:44.270-05:00

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Folding Bikes Q & A

2008-01-26T12:43:22.144-05:00

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Advanced Electric Assist Bikes and Technologies

2008-01-26T12:42:48.754-05:00

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Sports Utility/Cargo Bikes

2008-01-26T12:42:28.210-05:00

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I see different battery packs at 24 Volts, 36 Volts, 48 Volts - which is best and why?

2007-12-15T17:56:46.659-05:00

The voltage of the system determines the overall amount of power, acceleration, hill climbing, and top speed you'll get from a given electric bike system.

Many of the electric assist bikes on the market use 24 volts - it is sort of a "standard." Most of our own e-bikes over the years have been 24Volts.

Some bikes can handle higher voltage, but before going to a higher voltage setup, make sure that your system can handle it. Also, beware that building a bike that can go over 20mph without pedaling is not legal in many locales. Many higher voltage setups can exceed that limit.

That said, here's why we like higher voltage systems (from a recent web posting we made):
I rode a 24 V 20A system for about 10 years, on various different bikes and configurations. It works great for assist on hills, especially on the Xtracycle setup when carrying a load. Now it seemed like that was enough, and I was happy with that situation, until I tried 36V (and even 48V). Suddenly, that opened up some possibilities that weren't there before, such as riding in traffic in town, without feeling like I'm slowing traffic. I can now keep up with
traffic up to about 25mph, even when loaded, which makes it much more viable to go clear across town for errands or whatever. Because of the higher power, I'm now using the bike even more than ever, and it becomes more of a real replacement for a car.

Can capacity in Amp hours be compared across battery types?

2007-12-15T17:54:19.941-05:00

Unfortunately, not really. The problem with a "10AH" sealed lead acid battery is
that the voltage drops steeply once you get to 6-7 AH. With many electric vehicle controllers, this
means you won't have enough juice to actually operate the vehicle, even though the battery
has some capacity left after this point.

It is sort of like having a gas tank that holds 10 gallons, but having the fuel
line leave the tank somewhere not at the bottom, so that even though the tank may have 2
gallons left, you can't use them.

With lithium chemistries (and NiMH also) the discharge curves allow you to get
much closer to the true capacity before the voltage drops. For a look at the voltage
discharge curves for some of the LiFePO4 packs, see http://www.zeva.com.au/tech/LiFePO4.php
(the ones we are using are based on the PHET cells).

What does "Amp Hours" (or watt hours) mean?

2007-12-15T17:38:39.396-05:00

Amp hours (AH or Ah) is how battery capacity is measured. Technically 1 amp hour means 1 amp of current for 1 hour of time. For perspective, a typical small electric vehicle battery will range from 5 AH up to 15 AH. To figure out what this means, you need to know how much current your EV will draw (in amps) and how long you will ride.

For example, if your electric vehicle (EV) draws an average of 5 amps, then a 10 AH battery would allow you to ride for 2 hours (5Amps x 2 hours = 10 Amp Hours).

In our own experience, when using a moderate electric assist on our bikes, on semi-hilly terrain, we use about 5AH for every 10 miles travelled.

Note that the true power you get out of an electric vehicle depends not only on amps, but also on the voltage. A better measure of power is based on watts, which is just current (amps) times voltage (volts). This is the common unit of measure for things like light bulbs. So a 100W light bulb would, for example, draw 1 amp at 100 volts (1A X 100V = 100W).

Therefore, the best measure of true battery capacity is not Amp Hours, but Watt hours, which is calculated the same way as amp hours: 1 watt for 1 hour is 1 watt•hour. Or, 10 watts for 1/2 hour would be 5 watt hours, and etc. Most of the packs we use are in the range of 200-300 Watt hours.

We find average use to be about 15 watt hours per mile when we are using the electric assist with moderation, and more than 20 watt hours per mile when riding with a "lead foot". For regular use, the Cycle9 LiFeBatt pack we will be carrying should last for about 16 miles before recharge.

Who is writing all this and why should we believe you?

2007-12-08T23:18:23.369-05:00

You can see a bit more about us on our About Us Page Briefly, we've ridden several generations of electric bikes since 1994. Morgan has assembled her bikes by herself, including the wiring, wheel building, and so on. We also have owned (and still own) numerous other bikes, and use them for commuting and recreation.

Morgan has a degree in Physics (among several other degrees), so remembers one or two things about electricity and kinetic motion. She is also a scientist, so loves to experiment and tinker with her bikes.

Elise loves to work with people, educating and advocating for bike use. She has been an avid bike rider for 20+ years. She also likes her bikes simple and uncomplicated, so she is the perfect contrast to Morgan's tinkering and technophile tendencies, keeping us focused on the needs of the user who wants a fun and simple bike.

Greg is a bike enthusiast, through and through. He wants everyone to share the joy that is biking.

Cycle 9, LLC
Chapel Hill/Carrboro North Carolina

How much energy does an electric assist bike use? How much does it cost to charge?

2007-12-08T23:15:20.448-05:00

In typical usage, an electric bike may consume around 15 watt hours per mile (a bit more for a high power bike). For a 15 mile round-trip, this is a total of about 225 watt hours. That's the same amount of energy it would take to run a 100 Watt light bulb for a bit over two hours. That's not much energy!

If we assume that the battery charger is only 50% efficient, this equates to 0.5 KWH of power per day. Again, that's a 100 Watt light bulb for 5 hours. That is about $0.05 (5 cents) per day! The same car trip in a typical 20MPG car would cost $2.25 (at $3/gal). Then add in parking for the car (bike parking is nearly always free) and the equation is even better. Comparing the costs for gas alone, over the course of a year (assuming 200 days of commuting), this equates to $10 electricity for the bike, versus $450 for the car (plus parking, which on our local campus is >$1,000 per year). That's a difference of $440 per year at current gas prices. As gas prices go up, this will be even more favorable to the bike (at $5/gallon of gas, the bike would save over $700 per year).

Isn't that cheating to have electric assist?

2007-12-08T23:14:56.776-05:00

We've been asked this question, more than once! But this is a silly question. If you are in a race and using an electric assist against a biker without one, that is cheating. But the electric assist is not designed for racing, it is designed to make the bike more practical for everyday use. This includes easier hill climbing, reduced sweatiness when going to work, longer range, and so on. The assist is to encourage you to use the bike more often, instead of a car. In our opinion, if that means more bikes and less cars on the road. That is the opposite of cheating.

Who is an Xtracycle Freeradical for?

2007-12-08T23:14:29.690-05:00

Anyone who wants to do a lot of what a car can do, without the expense or pollution of a car. The Freeradical can: carry people, carry your pets, carry your spouse/partner, carry your groceries, carry your lumber, carry your furniture, carry your kayaks, well, you get the idea. The most nifty thing is that adding the freeradical to the bike only gains a few pounds, and still feels like a normal bike! Plus, the longer wheelbase makes the bike more stable to ride. We can thank the good Xtracycle folks for inspiring us to get into this business in the first place. It's because of our own Freeradical equipped bikes that we realized how practical and fun bikes can be as a replacement for many car trips.

Who is a folding bike for?

2007-12-08T23:14:01.538-05:00

Anyone who wants the convenience of a bike, without having to deal with bike racks on a car, or restrictions on a bus/subway/train. Anyone who doesn't have space to store a bike. They're also great for anyone who travels - most folding bikes can be packed in a suitcase, so it doesn't cost any extra to take them on the airplane. For those who frequently have to walk across town or college campus, folding bikes can be stored in your office or cube, ready to go.

What are the different battery chemistries, how much do they cost and weigh?

2007-12-08T23:12:52.532-05:00

The charts below tell the short story.

Lifetime energy carried versus cost, bigger is better. On top of the bars it shows approximately how far the battery will carry you over its life, irrespective of cost. The bars themselves show the cost-adjusted lifetime energy capacity. The Li-Fe-PO4 is about 2X more economical than the other batteries.

Power versus Weight, bigger means lighter weight/longer range. Calculated as Watt hours per pound of weight (approximate).

For those who like details, here's a table that shows the figures and notes for each battery type.

One thing that's not emphasized in the above information is the relative safety of the various battery technologies. The Li-Fe-PO4 is a highly safe battery chemistry, which won't explode or catch on fire if it is short circuited or crushed in an accident, or overcharged. This makes it of particularly suited for electric vehicle use, since EV's are exposed to more situations than is a laptop battery.

My local bike shop wasn't keen on electric assist bikes

2007-12-08T23:12:01.910-05:00

We find an unfortunately negative attitude amongst many bike shops regarding electric assist bikes. Most of these are great people, but they have come to see things almost solely from a recreational perspective. And sometimes there is a bit of "purism" thrown in too. That is all well and good for the fit young folks who often work at bike shops and who ride recreationally - but it does not work so well for those of us who aren't so fit, or aren't so young, or just want a practical bike that is fun to ride to work!

Also, some bike shops had bad experiences with early electric assist kits in the mid-90's. We ourselves have owned some of those, and they had some "issues". However, electric bikes have evolved substantially in the past 15 years (and are still evolving). This has been particularly spurred on by their popularity in asian countries, where the costs and difficulty of owning a car are even greater than in the USA. This has resulted in a great deal of innovation, which has led to better and more trouble free bikes. A substantial improvement has also come in battery chemistry. Early bike kits relied on heavy lead-acid batteries. Increasingly today, bike kits are offering much lighter and longer-lived batteries based on chemistries such as Nickel Metal Hydride or Lithium Ion Polymer. There are a few new battery chemistries on the way that have even greater advantages, such as extremely long life. For more information, see question 10 below, and keep an eye on our blog for product announcements. We are going to be testing several of them and will offer such batteries up for sale once we are satisfied that they will perform.

Why an electric bike rather than electric car? Or a hybid car?

2007-12-08T23:10:46.952-05:00

We personally owned one of the first Toyota Prius' hybrid cars sold in the USA. Hybrids are great. But based on energy usage figures shown above, an electric bike is still 10 times more energy efficient than a hybrid. The bike gets over 500 MPG (based on 8.8kWh usable energy per gallon of gas), versus 50 MPG under ideal circumstances for the car.

We think electric plug in cars are even better than hybrids. But right now, there are not many available. And, they still use substantially more energy than a bike (about 10 times more). Finally, they will be much more expensive to buy and operate than a bike. So, for short trips, a bike is still a much more viable option.

There are a few other advantages to a bike. Even when pedaling gently while using electric assist, you are still getting exercise. No exercise is involved in driving a car. Also, it gives a chance to slow down, relax, and take in the surroundings. Many bike riders think their ride home after work is the most relaxing part of the day (compared to the typical drive home from work, which can be very stressful). Plus, there is usually no parking expense for a bike. You can just ride past all the traffic up to your destination and park the bike. No hassles.

Sometimes a car is a necessary and useful thing to have access to. But we suggest considering a car sharing program such as Zipcar as an alternative to owning a car (or, at least using that in combination with a bike to replace the second car in a family).

How does the cost of an electric bike compare to a car?

2007-12-08T23:04:19.341-05:00

Bikes do require maintenance, but it is useful to contrast them with a car.

The following estimate for the bike is based on a generous replacement schedule and someone who has all work done at a bike shop. For those who are do-it-yourselfers, a bike is much easier to work on than a car, and will save considerable cost.

Based on 15 miles a day and 200 days per year:

While the bike is marginally less expensive to maintain, it is not drastically so. However, the difference is very substantial when it comes to depreciation, insurance, and parking. Total savings for bike is over $4,000 per year (not counting gas savings, considered under point 2 above).

This assumes that a bike replaces a car, which we think is much more feasible with an electric assist bike (especially one that can haul cargo, such as an Xtracycle Freeradical equipped bike, which we will be selling).

A different and perhaps more revealing number comes from Ken Kifer, who (based on previous $1.50/gal prices) estimates a total operating cost of $0.93/mile for a standard auto, versus $0.128/mile for a bike. With current gas costs of >$3.00 putting this estimate above $1.00/mile, this would equate to $3,000 per year for the car, and $384 for the bike, in this case representing > $2,500 difference.

Who is an electric assist bike for?

2007-12-08T23:03:19.094-05:00

Anyone who would like to bike more often instead of using a car. Electric assist is especially useful when there are hills, hot weather, long commutes, or for those not feeling in peak physical condition.

Many people are used to thinking of bikes as solely recreational. Most standard bike shops cater to the recreational market. We don't suggest electric assist bikes for recreational use like touring or racing - this is not the main reason for their existence.

The needs of the bike commuter are different. A bike commuter needs to get to work every day, regardless of how she or he feels. Having an electrical assist on the bike is a huge psychological and physical boost to getting on the bike and doing the commute. It makes it seem a lot easier, and more fun!